In a high performance world, the consequences of your decisions are highly scrutinized. In many sports, job stability is not high. The podcast team challenges the notion of work-life balance in high performance sport settings. The pursuit of balance is most likely unrealistic and may have detrimental effects on the well-being of performers. The team not only addresses some of the concerns they experience, but strategies that are being used in the high performance world to manage time.


J: Welcome to compete like a champion podcast. You're here with Dr. Larry Lauer, mental skill specialist and coach Johnny Parkes with USTA player development. Today we're going to be talking about the pursuit of happiness. No, not the Will Smith movie, but work life balance in a high performance world. Larry, this is a good one.

L: Yeah, I came up with it so obviously.

J: And I just read it. So.

L: Some of us prepare for the show and others show up.

J: Oh come on.

L: Just picking. Are you happy Johnny?

J: I am very happy today. Very happy. Yeah, no this is a really, it's a really cool topic cause it's something that we probably don't talk about a lot and things that we don't often realize and I think that pursuit of happiness, understanding what a work life balance is, do you believe in a work life balance or what are your beliefs in the work life balance? I think that'd be pretty cool to talk about.

L: Well then let's do it all. So let's get after it.

J: So just before we kick off, I did actually prepare for this. I pinned a tweet that I really liked and it's actually from a, from a guy called John Gordon who's an author and I was sort of directed to his Twitter because there's a book I have of his on my shelf called the power of positive leadership that's on my to read pile and he wrote a pretty cool quote here. He said, I believe work life balance is a myth. Rather, the key is to find rhythm and be engages when you are at work and engage when you're at home, invest in relationships where you are and you'll feel more energized at work and home. You won't have balance but you'll be fulfilled.

L: It's deep. Starting deep, Johnny.

J: That's really deep.

L: That's good.

J: So it's more about the harmony of it all rather than the balance.

L: You know what I hear? I hear being present, being present, being present. That's what I hear. Just being present with wherever you are. Right and being engaged with those people who are there. I mean, one of the biggest things that creates happiness is connection, right? Being connected to others, having a good relationship with others. People you can communicate with and talk to and joke around with and share stories. And you know that being engaged with people, if you're constantly somewhere else, how can you really have those relationships, right? Where there's this back and forth, you know, that actually makes our lives more, I would say fulfilling cause we're, we're, we're living in with somebody else, you know, others.

J: And I think in order to be able to do that well, you've got to be good at being able to compartmentalize. So we often say, okay, when you're in the working world, leave everything at the door, right? Leave your personal stuff and everything at the door so you can walk into the building and be then completely engaged in your work environment. And then we, we often talk about when we go home, you know, do you go home and then bust out the laptop again and start working? Or are you actually engaged in everything that's going on at home? You know, so you've got to be able to maybe then compartmentalize some of these aspects that between work and life and, but it all comes back to a standard really, right? We talk about having engagement all the time and what we do is also have training standards on the court off the court. Within that, within the player's programming, but from a coaching perspective and a life perspective, this engagement ready as a standard that we can live, live our life by. But in order to do that, compartmentalizing has to be...

L: Well I think, yeah, I believe so. I think it's a, a skill that we all must learn. I don't think you learn it early in life. It's a more advanced skill in my mind. It's pretty hard for young people to compartmentalize things. I just think about when, you know, a parent is also a coach, like our good friend Mick over here, that it's hard for the child to see them as a coach because they're the parent most of the time. And so they can't separate those two. So young people have a hard time compartmentalizing things, but it doesn't mean we don't talk about it and helping them begin to understand the concept. But as you, as you kind of go into this high performance world, it's very easy to become obsessive with your work. Take it home. Now we have phones, we have laptops, we have iPads, whatever, where we can be with our work 24/7 and and answering emails or, or whatever all the time. And it's, it's not healthy. And to what John Gordon was saying, I think you want to be present with your work wherever you're at and get into the rhythm of that and you'll be more effective and more efficient. So then then your timing when you're not at work, you can actually not be at work. And that is huge because now work is confined to, you know, not all of us can live that way obviously, but it's confined to a part of the day so that you can decompress and actually do other things and enjoy life with family and children and friends and, and bring more fulfillment to things. But to me, the key is that in our society, I'm going to, I'm just going to speak for American society, you can maybe explain us more English society, but culture, but that it, it's kind of expected that you will bring work home with you, that you will be available to answer emails, texts whenever they're sent because other people are doing it too. And this has become sort of a informal norm. Now there are some jobs that you need to be on call and people get paid for that, but too often people are actually turning the work day into the whole day and they're always on. They're always on their phone and it's not healthy and it's not good for people and you're not engaging. If you have children, you're not engaging with your children at all. You're distracted from, from them and they feel that and you don't feel good either as well because you're not getting that break from work. It's obsessive. Now, you may enjoy your work and want to focus on it a lot and that's awesome. But I do believe that there needs to be some break from that. But I think what Gordon's saying, which I agree with completely is that a perfect balance is probably useless to try and pursue in a high performance world.

J: Yeah, absolutely. And we were very fortunate earlier on this year to have met Jessica Mendoza, the MLB analysist.

L: Yeah. Sunday night baseball. The first female, what'd she call her? Commentator, I believe.

J: Yeah.

L: Yeah. She was awesome.

J: And it was a, you know, she did a talk, it was more like a panel of as a sort of Q&A with her. And she gave us some really great insights into a. Her journey, but b. Her life, cause some of the questions that came up was, you know, she, she gave us insights as she has a young family, husband, you know, and all that. And one of the questions to her was, how do you deal with a work life balance? And she talked about the struggles with it. It's, it's, if you're trying to find, like you say, if you're trying to find balance, it's tough. But, uh, one of the core strategies that she said she had has, is she, has the phone monster at home? Do you remember that?

L: I remember the phone monster. Yeah.

J: She turns a shoe box and the kids all, I guess it was like a family activity, they created, uh, turned a shoe box into a little monster. And when she comes home from work, the, the phones go into the shoe box monster and they stay there, you know, so then, then she's engaged in the family life. But it was really cool that she shared that, first of all. I mean, gave us sort of an insight into that, but uh, from other sort of males and females in the room that were sort of having probably issues with that and looking at her and going, wow, she's incredibly busy. She's doing this, that, she's everywhere and she's got a family she's trying to maintain. Like, I just thought that was really cool that she shared that with us and gave us an inside. But that's a cool little strategy to use to kind of, you know, be engaged at home when you're sort of leaving your work at work.

L: Those symbolic things work really well because they create a a a point in time, right, where you're very aware. Where, OK, I'm switching focus now. I'm no longer thinking about work and I'm going to start focusing on my children or my family or whatever it might be. But that, that symbolic, you know, putting the phone in the, in the, the shoe monster box is a way to do that, right? And we talk about symbolic things with players all the time. You know, people may have heard of this strategy of, of parking your concerns or your, your thoughts, so you know, you pull up to wherever you're going, the site where you're gonna play, you're gonna practice, you parked those concerns, you leave them in the car. If you want to get even more concrete, you can write your concerns, all your thoughts on a piece of paper, leave it in the car, shut the door. It's there. For those that don't drive, you know we work with a lot of junior athletes that don't drive, you know, you can talk about bagging it. So writing it down, putting it in your bag, zipping it up, leaving it there, it'll be there for when practice is over or the tournament, the match is over. You can come back to it then. But that symbolic way of doing things really brings your attention to, okay, it's time for me to switch focus now. It's time for me to focus on something different and it's okay to do that.

J: I think it's minimizing those distractions too. So, you know, an example I worked when I went back to England after, after America, I'm in 2012, I started working with some players, you know, trying to play professionally. And one of my roles was always as a, when I was always working with juniors or, or uh, it doesn't matter who they are, any player was, you know, I don't want that phone out during, you know, during practices or around the environment. So, and often it's the case. A lot of coaches do that, right? No phones out during practice, but then there might be some coaches that, you know, don't mind it so much. I mean, I think our standards is to, to minimize distractions. You can, you know, leave your phones in the, you know, in your room. You don't need it. But I think a lot of players, they probably look at it and think he's just trying to be mean or something. Well, it's not. It's, it's minimizing distractions so that we're not blending what we're trying to focus on and be engaged with on court with then maybe text messages that come through that then deter your mind away from being in the present and what you're trying to focus on. So it's more coming back to, again, those standards of like, look, I mean, we're actually at the best interest of trying to help you and be engaged with what we're doing is to minimize those distractions. Just leave it away, put it away. You don't need it. Like you don't need it. You can worry about all that stuff after and you can look on it after and check your Instagram likes and all that from your recent posts, but that can happen at the end of the day when the training structures finish.

L: Well and rounding this back into the, the topic is that when you create these definitive practices where you're engaged in the present, you feel more fulfilled because in the present is where enjoyment is. You're, you're here, you're doing something that you're fully immersed in and that's a better experience and then being distracted, being focused on something else, you know, that's not here. So I think that's a very important concept to teach children and certainly one that we have to be reminded of as adults because it's very easy to fall into that trap of, okay, I've got a lot to do, so I'm on my phone a lot and there's no, and we all do it. Look, I'll be honest, I do it sometimes. There's no, there's no break to the work day. And you start to feel that elevated stress, that anxiety, you're not taking that stress break. You're not engaging with your family, for example. And that that is a, that has a cost over time. It absolutely does. And we know that, for example, you know, I've heard this recently that like we're in a high performance world that actually we talk about this with the athletes, but the caregivers or the performance staff actually may deal with more stress and anxiety than the athletes deal with and they may have more mental health concerns then the athletes do sometimes because of the highly scrutinized world that the performance staff lives in and, and the consequences of, of what they do.

J: And go deeper into that, like why, why they scrutinize more and why does that put elevated anxiety and pressure on them?

L: Well, you know, you, you have these players here and there's an expectation that they need to produce right. Now tennis is not as, I would say, as scrutinized as you look at football or, or baseball or basketball or hockey for example, but nonetheless, even, even soccer, but nonetheless, there is pressure to, to help this athlete reach their goals, right? And when things aren't going well, everybody feels that tension everybody feels, is it something that I can do? Is there something I'm not doing correctly? Right? And now you think about it, in some worlds you might only have two, three years. Your window is small because if you don't produce results, you're going to get fired and the next group is going to come in. Right? So coaches feel that pressure. Tennis coaches often feel that a lot because players change coaches a lot. They don't like what they see early on, off we go on to the next one.

J: Well, and also to that point is, is that often the time that only coaches can respond to emails and messages when they come off court in the evenings?

L: Yes.

J: I remember, you know, when I had my program, I get off court at 8 or 9, sometimes 10 PM at night. I might be on court the next morning, well when am I going to respond to those emails. But then there's also the expectations from the parents that they need answers to the things that they're asking you. So how, how do you go about separating all this out so you can give the responses you want to give or it's either give the responses or don't, in which case then you might be, you know, being seen as ignoring, answering questions to parents and neglecting. So it's how do you find the time to make sure that you're covering all these areas now? So in a scrutinized world, that's where the coach may feel that they're being scrutinized. If they don't respond in a timely manner, it doesn't reflect well on them. Maybe the parent, you know, gets fed up with it enough over time and they start exploring other options for coaches, you know. Or the coaches really bend over backwards to get these responses out that maybe, I would say, sometimes come underappreciated because our time is the coaches' most valuable asset. So it's, it's an interesting side of it from...

L: Well, I'm not, I'm not going to be on this podcast and say I'm very good at this because I think I'm trying to work at it as well as I think a lot of people are. But you know, you take emails for example, and one of the things that I've read is to give yourself times where you're going to do emails and do not look at it other times. I'm still trying to put that in practice.

J: So tough.

L: It is tough because we just open it up and we leave it up and it's so easy just to click on your phone and have your emails. But if, if you were to say, okay, before my on-court stuff starts in the day, I want to take 20 minutes to answer emails at the front end of the day, right? So I just block that in and then maybe I'm going to do another 10 or 15 at lunch, just whatever comes through in the morning and then I'll do a few more minutes at the end of the day and try to block it. And again, this is not a one size fits all, but it's an idea as a way to actually put some boundaries on that because I think that there's immediate things that need to be dealt with and there's just, like 95% of the emails that we get, or texts that do not require immediate attention because, because everybody's so accessible now, we're just like, Hey, what do you think about this? Well, you wouldn't have asked us if you didn't have email or text. If, you know, if you had to actually pick up the phone and call me, you probably wouldn't just, ah, I'm not gonna write. You know what I mean? We want to communicate. But at the same time, there are things that you have to prioritize.

J: I know I'm young, but I lived in a world before cell phones as well.

L: Semi young.

J: Semi young. And I remember there was times where it's actually a standard just in culture, and this was growing up in the UK where you only had land phones, landlines, right?

L: Yeah, I remember that.

J: Yeah. And it was always a thing where, okay, you didn't call anyone past 6:30 or 7 o'clock, cause that was known that that was family dinner time, family time. Like you just didn't call people. So I remember numerous times going, Oh you know, we need to, we need to ask about this, but Oh no it's past seven o'clock we'll wait until the morning. You know, we'll wait until tomorrow.

L: It could wait.

J: So there was that sort of expectation around society that you just didn't call people, especially on land lines after 7:00 PM, you know, but now I think obviously cell phones around, it's just easy to be able to do that. And I'm very guilty of it. Like I'll send text messages asking work questions to, to coaches or staff that, you know, like eight o'clock at night, nine o'clock at night, which is bad on my part because then I'm asking them and putting that pressure on them to either make a choice of either deciding whether to reply or wait for the morning. You know? So I think we've also got to get better at, it's got to start with us. We've got to lead by example with that, right?

L: Yeah. Well, I think you, again, going back to coaches or, or people who work in a service industry, creating boundaries and, and letting the parents and the players know. Like, this is when I'm going to respond to emails. This is when I'm available to talk. And you know, if it's a, an emergency where you have to have me right away, then let me know that. Otherwise, I mean, a lot of things can wait until the next day to be honest. They don't require like at eight o'clock at night, you, you don't need to know what you're doing in January if it's October right now. Like I don't necessarily think that we need to answer that tonight, right? But so much of, because of everybody's accessibility, the immediacy of people wanting information, right. And we get used to that. If I have a question, I can get that than we expect that from human people, human capital as well. Right? Like, Hey, you need to produce. And I think we get to check ourselves on that and make sure we're not playing into that, that roll and in fact, if we have a five day work week, I would guess in a high performance world, most people were working probably closer to six days when you start to really add up the hours.

J: Yeah, for sure. I mean that standard nine to five is definitely not nine to five from what I see anyway.

L: It may even be seven days. You know, when you really start to add it up and they may take their time on their weekend, but they're not really fully able to, I would say rechargeand decompress from, from their work. So I think, I think we've got to take a look at it and if, if you're pursuing happiness based on the perfect balance, I think you're going to be disappointed in a high performance world because it's just not that way. But as we've spent a lot of time talking about you, you need to think about this and create some expectations and boundaries about where you're going to make sure that you have your time away from the job. As a mental coach, essentially you kind of are on call. But I don't feel the need to have my phone in front of me all evening long. I don't, I just, you know, if I'm coaching my son's baseball team, I'm not looking at my phone. I might check it once in two and a half hours just in case there's something or I feel it buzz, okay it's there. But because I'm engaged with the practice, well hopefully, otherwise, you know, I'm cheating those kids. So, you know, I think it's very important that we create some boundaries like Mendoza did with her phone and explain that to other people and say, look, I'm not ignoring you. It's just that I, I really do need that time away from this constant bombardment of information so we can become present like Gordon talked about and actually be engaged in non-work pursuits. With that work life balance, you're not looking for a perfect balance, you're actually looking for an imperfect balance.

J: Give us an example of some things that are important when trying to create greater efficiency then at work, right? So how can we be more efficient at work so that we put the pressure off ourselves that when we can go home, we can be more involved and engaged in that.

L: One of my favorite things to do is what is the most important thing to do today? Like what is the thing that I must focus on and and bring that along. Maybe I'm not getting it done, but I'm bringing it to the next goal, right? Or the next step, the next task.

J: So you're talking about, essentially prioritizing.

L: Prioritizing. Because there's a lot of mundane tasks that we fill our lives with that really don't require that much attention or honestly, especially if you're having a stressful day or you're rushed, that might not be the day that you're going through your, your checklist and trying to knock everything off. That's the day where, okay, I need to focus on the most important stuff, do a great job knowing that I'm a bit rushed or stressed, and then get some extra time to recover and, and, and really get myself back to a good place. Right? Because if you, you start focusing on the mundane tasks because you feel good because you can check them off, but meanwhile, the most important thing isn't getting done. You're probably still going to be stressed because you know when you go to bed at night, yeah, man, I didn't really get to the thing that needed the most time, the thing that's most important. So you got to prioritize and you got to know yourself like sometimes, and I've seen it, I've done it. It's, it's easy just to fall in the trap of, okay, completing tasks, but if those tasks aren't relevant to the most important things to what matters as we talk about the USTA, then is it really necessary to do those things right now? Can they wait or do they need to be done at all? And those are the questions you need to ask yourself.

J: And I think that's... People probably debate that in their mind all the time. I've got a million things I need to do. I'll work on every one a little bit at a time. Or do I solely focus on one thing, get to that goal, then move on to the next. So you know, sometimes people don't buy into that because then they feel like they're not moving the needle with everything they need to do. And then when they're only working on one thing, everything else is put to the side. And that makes them feel that they then behind on all those areas. So how do you, have you ever experienced that in your own mind and how have you dealt with that the best way? What are the experiences that led you to go to one strategy or the other?

L: Well, I think watching others and then what I personally experienced. I've, I've been around people who, who work very hard but achieve very little. And it always like perplexed me. Like how is that possible? How can this person work so hard? And people love them but they don't really get anything done. It's because they're doing the mundane tasks and the little things that aren't moving the dial forward. They're not focusing on the big stuff. The stuff that innovates, that, that changes the game, that makes people better, that makes you personally better, right? That's focused on the mission. There's so many things that you can focus on in a high performance world, but you got to get at the core things that matter the most, that's going to move the ball down the field if you want to put it that way. You need to know what those things are and you put the most energy into those things. So that's what I learned. Even if go back to like [inaudible] book and he talked about energy and and sort of, you know, where are you putting your energies and you gotta put it on things that matter, that matter most to you. And when you start to do that, you see the most growth on those important things.

J: It would also seem like the more, sort of mental and emotional energy you're wasting on, I guess the mundane things, then it's taking away that energy that really you need to save and store to put into the bigger things, right? The things that you're prioritizing. So we need to, we need to store or save up that mental energy because it only lasts so long each day. There's only so long. I mean, you talk about, you know, let's say you've got the nine to five job or maybe you're on court really early in the morning seven and you're grinding throughout the day, the worst hours you're probably putting in a probably those times just after a lunch break. Where, where you know, the one o'clock to, well maybe the two o'clocks, the three o'clock, where you're starting to come down a little bit and then those last couple of hours you've got, you always kick in and say, okay, I've got a couple of hours left here, let's plow through.

L: Some urgency kicks in.

J: Urgency kicks in. And so, so how do you, you know, in order to store those mental energies, what can we also do? And I believe sort of, yes, a lot of people drink caffeine to keep them going throughout the day. But, but dive a little bit more into the organization. I know you said like separating out time, like you know, there's an hour only specifically geared to emails. We're prioritizing projects, but you know, maybe go into a little bit more, let's say you're a coach, you're on court, you got time on court, you've got to do duties off court, you know, how are you separating those things out to make sure that you're taking care of the little details that go into the bigger prioritized areas?

L: Well, I think you, you, you may, everybody does things a little bit differently, but you may take 10, 15 minutes in the morning just to sort of plan your day and what success would look like.

J: You start to come up with like your checklist for the day.

L: Right. And it's holding you yourself, and making you aware and holding yourself accountable that okay, right now, the most important thing that's going on in my work is this, so I need to really dial up. This is where I want to get it to today. So these are the tasks that will get me there. And then you start planning accordingly. Okay, so I need this amount of time. Well guess what? You're not getting that time today. All right, so I got to, I'm going to have to cut back on what I expect from myself or yes I can get that, but then this thing needs to move. So you start making your decisions, but if you run around with your hair on fire all day long, just trying to do stuff, what you end up is just getting a bunch of stuff done that might not even really matter, right? Versus being a little planful, taking a little time, either the night before, the day of, and just what, what would be successful to get done today? Making that plan. Then you can start to organize your time. For me, you got to know when is your best energy and if it's in the morning, especially as you get older, it's typically in the morning, um, just because of the way that life ends up working out. But then you plan to do the most important stuff if you can in the morning. You don't always get that choice. So then when you had to do something and you're on a timeline or you have to do it at a time where you're in lower energy, you're better off taking five minutes to go for a walk, 10 minutes to go for a walk, take a breather, do some mindfulness and come back with good energy and focus rather than grinding at it for an hour and not getting anywhere because your mind is full of all the tasks you need to do and you're not really focused. Take that time to reconnect, to let go and really come back with a fresh mind ready to, to work again. So I think that's really important. Once you plan your day and build in some of those trust breaks in the day, go for a walk, go talk to coworkers, actually take a lunch, which sometimes I don't. So this is advice for myself.

J: Naughty Larry, you've got to eat.

L: Well, that's when the athletes want to meet. So, but yeah, naughty. You're right. So, so we can all learn from these things.

J: It reminds me about how our athletes learn or kids learn, right? The things that are more cognitively challenging and taxing that require the most mental energy, you want to do at the beginning of the day.

L: Yes. Or, and when you're running a practice, when are you teaching new skills? You do it at the beginning of practice?

J: Well, you'd want to do it at the beginning. But I think sometimes we, we don't take that into consideration. We just have our plan. We want to get through these areas and we don't actually strategically plan, okay this area is a new skill, maybe I should put that at the beginning. We just sort of go through it like a checklist of these are the areas we want to work on, you know? So I, I mean when I came out of college and I started coaching, those are nuances of learning how to teach and how to coach that I think we need to understand. So I think as that relates back to us then as like that's how we can impact players is make sure we structure it in the right way. Based off cognitive and you know, mental, emotional demands, but then for us as coaches, we got to try and do the same.

L: Absolutely.

J: We gotta make sure that actually a lot of our most challenging times that require most of our mental energy, we need to do at the beginning. And then some of the mundane things that, you know, maybe, you know, we do want to be fully engaged, but there's going to be times where our focus will be challenged. But we want to hope that that's more through areas where we have more of an automatic sense of that, of just letting the skill and let all the things that we need to do. And there's a more of an automatic nature about them.

L: Yeah. Some tasks can be completed more automatically without a lot of thought and, and some require a lot of thought and, and a lot of effort and time. So if you're teaching players new skills, you want to have good energy, right? If you have a group of players that maybe they're younger, you know, you need to bring the energy, then you need to plan for that. So I think it's, it's knowing what's required of you to do your job very well, to move the ball forward and then you, you start planning accordingly for that. So, um, but again, you know, as you think about all this to me as we, we round it out here that you really want to focus on quality time versus volume of time, quantity of time. Focusing on the time that I am spending with high engagement. And if you do that, for example, if you work and you have to work 50, 60 hour weeks to do your job, okay, I understand. So then the times that you are with your family, then you need to be highly engaged with them because if you do that, maybe you only get two hours a day or an hour a day with them, but if you're fully engaged with them, you're going to feel good about that and that's going to fulfill you. But if that hour or two you're distracted, you're on the phone, you're doing other things, you're not going to be fulfilled by that and that's going to be stressful and your family's gonna, you're going to take the burn of that as well.

J: Yeah. So, so we're running out of time here as we, as we link back to then this pursuit of happiness. Okay. We've talked about the work life balance, that it's, it's not really a balance, right? It's more about creating the harmony, uh, of, of being fully engaged. Give us some three, know three of the top tips, top things to take home that can help us immediately kind of improve our level of engagement so that we can live a more fulfilling, I guess, happier, live in a more, you know, happier world.

L: Yeah. And audience, just know I'm working on these things too, so I'm not preaching at you. I think number one is really, you know, planning your times that you'll be at work and creating those boundaries so that you can also plan for high engagement quality time with your family, right time that you can do things that you love. So, you know, you want to plan those things in. And as much as I hate the idea of scheduling family time, it does create some structure and it makes it happen. You know, I like to be spontaneous, but I know that I need to be mindful of that. So I think that's one thing. I think, you know, throughout your work day, really prioritizing things. Focus on what matters, and take those stress breaks because you're better off doing things. I'd rather just have an employee work five hours with high engagement than to work eight hours with so, so engagement. You just get better quality from them, right? And the experience is going to be better. So take those walks, take those breaks, talk to your coworkers, enjoy yourself. I think that that's real important. And then finally we talk about this work-life imbalance. Just be aware that I don't think anybody finds the perfect balance when you're in high performance. Well, I'm not sure anybody finds the perfect balance? And, and I've heard it said that if you're constantly searching for happiness, you're going to end up pretty disappointed. Just enjoy the moment that you're in. And I think that's all what we're trying to do.

J: Awesome. Those are some great thoughts to leave the listeners with, and hopefully you've enjoyed today's episode, Larry. That was a good one. And I'm sitting here taking notes because, you know, as he said, I think we're constantly working on these areas and, and for me, you know, I know I'm really working on these areas. I don't get it right a lot of the time. And so it's a constant awareness and adjustment every day. So appreciate your insights and thoughts there.

L: Thank you JP.

J: So that's been this week's episode. That's in pursuit of happiness, understanding a work life balance in a high performance world. Um, as we wrap up, you can check out our website, USTA Player Development website, We'll put up some resources on there. You can check out the mental skills portion of the, of the website for more information. Until next week, Dr. Larry.We're checking out.

L: Checking out.